Curse

Karlos · Aug 08, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Curtis Johnson, the Dev who's been working with us on the wiki confirmed that no change was pushed through last Friday for Mallyx. So, possibility (b) above is all that remains.

Tiny Killer · Aug 08, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Congratulations, you three. Very nicely done.

qazwersder · Aug 08, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Congratulations guys, well done.

Now the question that needs to be answered is what happened to summoning shadows? This was the skill which caused all the problems in the first place. Why didn't they, unlike every other group, face this skill being spammed over and over again?

-Loki- · Aug 08, 2007, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

There are two possible explanations to this:
a) ANet fixed him in last Friday's update and said nothing in the update notes. We'll verify this as we try him again this week.
b) They did whatever it is that Curtis Johnson mentioned in the talk page on the wiki that causes Mallyx to not glitch on Summoning Shadows. They either stumbled into it by luck (maybe the type of weapons the casters hold, like melee weapons or something), and maybe they had an insider tip and they're acting like 4th grade children and not sharing.

c) I'm flailing around trying to find an excuse for why they were able to beat him and I couldn't, and made this essay of a post to try to remind people of how important I think I am.

Dahnel · Aug 08, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Grats !

.Racthoh's Faithful Shadow Assassin

Racthoh · Aug 08, 2007, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Absolutely zero contact from devs. I would like to think my word is enough to be taken seriously.

Quote:

They were not able to defeat the Mallyx that everyone else was unable to defeat, yet they act like they were (Racthoh and Yesitsrob both did not even know what Summoning Shadows is, they thought Jin interrupted it)

Oh I was well aware of what it was and was anticipating the encounter that had been described in the earlier pages of this thread. If anything we just got the skills mixed up since, afterall, this was the first time for either of us.

I personally had been reading up heavily on all available discussion about Mallyx, youtube-ing for videos (which are all pretty bad for the record unless you want to watch how groups exploited Mallyx in the gate) and from that making builds/strategy. As Rob said, the thought of being the apparent 'first' is a good motivation.

EDIT: Ahh I see what I wrote on wiki and wasn't aware of it's activation time. My bad.

Quote:

They did NOT fight the Mallyx everyone else in this thread has been fighting. If they had fought him, there would have been no Recovery, no Flesh of my Flesh, no Life no long casting of any sort or rezzing.

Need some clarification on the Summoning Shadows usage. Was he using it every 5-7 seconds or you were being teleported every 5-7 seconds?

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 08, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Need some clarification on the Summoning Shadows usage. Was he using it every 5-7 seconds or you were being teleported every 5-7 seconds?

I believe it's teleported every 5-7s. I know I was trying to Fast cast rebirth at an FC of 11(just over 3 second cast), pretty much as soon as a team member died and was still being interupted. Others could not get a shelter off before SS was cast. So I would say he interupts every 4-7s. Since there is a 3 second delay I would say the latter.

I.e the entire team being teleported every 5-7s.

Racthoh · Aug 09, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Ah I was under the impression he was using SS every 5-7 seconds so you'd have an 8-10 second window. That was causing me some confusion, thanks.

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 09, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Thats what we thought also when we first got to him after the nerf, the build we were using worked better in hardmode so we figured the SS spamming was due to that, it took a couple of goes in NM to confirm what we were seeing and that it is indeed a bug.

yesitsrob · Aug 09, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

I also wanted to ask how critical the Monk and Ranger were to defeating the mobs before Mallyx, because both of them seem pretty shitty for the big fight itself.

Not that critical... on wave 18 I found myself having to heal an awful lot, and there were probably 2 other waves where I was actually having to do something that wasn't t + space + wand. For the main fight - before things got DP it generally took 2 hits for Mallyx to kill someone so being able to Infuse ir Heal Other them back to full health allowed them to get hit again.. The monk was probably more use in the Mallyx fight in that sense.... But such a good someone else could do obviously. In the main fight if I didn't cast at all in a wave we would probably have taken deaths, but that's probably to do with heroes spamming some skills unecesarilly and running out of energy.

The ranger again just really made the main fight faster. NR was just a random thing I threw on Jin since we had no hexes and conditions, and the IH, clearly for the deadly Visions of Regret + Major Adrenaline suicide. As far as the main Mallyx fight goes interrupts are key just to interrupt his laying of spirits. Jin did that, again something someone else could do... she only really had 2 skills that mattered against him. I had an Infuse, a Heal Other, and a Touch... If I had the Prot Spirit at my disposal there's a pretty good chance the fight wouldn't involve any deaths at all

Quote:

To fault the others is a direct result of the arrogant tone of Yesitsrob's childish chest thumping and putting down of others.

OOH.

Quote:

I know I was trying to Fast cast rebirth at an FC of 11

Sorry in advance if this come off as me questioning people again... but can I ask why Rebirth? As far as the main Mallyx fight goes I would want people that die to be up as quickly and functional as possible... On a primary mesmer you have some pretty excellent options available... Res Chant, Sig Return, Flesh (probably the best) - Rebirth would be the last res I choose. Even in the 18 waves fight

reverse_oreo · Aug 09, 2007, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Wow, they forgot to mention that oreo was there in spirit. Thats why he didnt cast all those skills. I supress stupid skills that cause death. OH OK!

Karlos · Aug 09, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Yeah, the overall gap between pulls was around 7-8 seconds. That means he was using the skill itslef every 4-5 seconds. I recall vividly being pulled to him, getting up and (since he's my target) seeing him re-use it before I even got half an aggro bubble away.

I believe it has NO recharge time, I believe he uses it when the AI condition for using it is fulfilled. i.e. He sees us, he sees something that bothers him (someone with a caster weapon X feet away from him or something else), he uses it, hits his target, re-establishes the reason for using it, uses it and so on...

ryanryanryan0310 · Aug 09, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

I think what's missing from this thread, right now, is a little perspective. Racthoh and the other guys did something great in one way, did nothing in another way, and did something wrong in a third way... Allow me to elaborate:

What they did great:
Racthoh is a Secret Dev of A-net and he typed /GODMODE

What they did NOT do:
Racthoh and crew didn't listen to the whining in this thread.

What they did wrong:
Racthoh and crew didn't follow the cookie cutter built and try to glich Mallyx.

Gj Racthoh and crew but I hate you with all my heart. Trub I secretly love you and want you to have my babies. ty gg

Fix some errors in comments......

Just say gg and try to beat Mallyx without the glich.

Shinjinbukai · Aug 09, 2007, 05:16 AM // 05:16

DoA's difficulty should be lowered to that of the elite missions of Factions.

Sal · Aug 09, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanryanryan0310

Fix some errors in comments......

Just say gg and try to beat Mallyx without the glich.

Awww , now see , your guild mates accomplish something extrodinary and you open your mouth and make them look stupid .

Tell ya what , go back and clean the toilets in the GH and wipe that brown stuff off your nose

madamesabina · Aug 09, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Congratulations to Rob and company for defeating Mallyx.

Though it would be in the gaming community's best interest to discover why is it that Summoning Shadows was not used as often, or not used at all, during their battle with Mallyx. I implore everyone who posts in this thread to please refrain from hurling insults at each other and work on a more constructive endeavor: to figure out what factors cause Mallyx to use Summoning Shadows and formulate a working team build many players can use in order to kill him. Such a breakthrough would benefit more players than simply applauding Rob and his team while insulting Karlos and all the efforts of those who tried to defeat Mallyx since the July update.

John Ebridge · Aug 09, 2007, 07:22 AM // 07:22

I noticed that Racthoh's group did not use Lightbringers Gaze.
Could it be as simple as that?

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 09, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Sorry in advance if this come off as me questioning people again... but can I ask why Rebirth? As far as the main Mallyx fight goes I would want people that die to be up as quickly and functional as possible... On a primary mesmer you have some pretty excellent options available... Res Chant, Sig Return, Flesh (probably the best) - Rebirth would be the last res I choose. Even in the 18 waves fight

For a couple of reasons, We had Glyph sac res chant for instant res, you need a rebirth in there somewhere just to fish people out of nasty mobs. Since so many mobs converge it's useful to do this asap(Don't want to be aggroing by accident) and also since you do need a teleport res somewhere in the build its better used on a profession in which energy regen is faster, is'nt required for tanking, healing or needs a large pool.

Towards the end of our testing(about 10 days ago) we were getting through the 17 waves flawless(excellent farm run btw) so I guess we could have switched in a better combat res, but it was an additional safety net that we were relcutant to discard.

One question that may have been missed in a previous, was the length of time his skills were disabled when interupted. Diversion did'nt seem to delay them by much(as witnessed by myself and other teams). Did distracting shot etc cause them to be disabled for a longer period of time than the standard stated recharge time?

Since SS has an instant usage time(it's like a shout timewise) I dont think even superfast Ai would be able to catch it, so i dont think Jin did interupt it.

Have any more groups tried this since last night?. It would be interesting to see if they met either a nasty Mallyx or a confused one.

yesitsrob · Aug 09, 2007, 08:45 AM // 08:45

From what Curtis has said there seems to be something in our approach that stopped him from using Summoning Shadows. It's also something he isn't sharing because what it seems to be is something that will make him not use Summoning Shadows after the fix too... on the wiki he said he doesn't want to share because he doesn't want to discredit people that beat him after the fix too. We did ask that he tell us and he won't

Quote:

For a couple of reasons, We had Glyph sac res chant for instant res, you need a rebirth in there somewhere just to fish people out of nasty mobs.

Yeah we just ressed people up straight back into combat - But we only died to Mallyx anyway, and considering the way we actually did the 18 waves an out of combat res wouldn't have worked for us should we have died.

I couldn't pay attention to Mallyx as much as I would have liked to but Jin wasn't doing the best of jobs from what I could tell

- He did get his spirits back up at times, but Mandy really kept on top of them.

Quote:

I noticed that Racthoh's group did not use Lightbringers Gaze.
Could it be as simple as that?

Due to the way that Curtis isn't sharing details on it, I don't think it's going to be something quite so small as the weapons we have equipped or the AL of our targets anymore. While the SS is glitched, his reasons for using it really don't seem to be and he seems to have his reasons for not using it as frequently against us. I can't imagine LBG being the reason, but if it is everyone drop it because it's pretty bad anyway.

I'll try and convince Rac and Mandy to do DoA again, and we'll likely go in with more humans next time

We still have the 4 areas to do again, but if we try different builds and he does go apeshit (lol) with his SS maybe it is something to do with build... If he doesn't, then maybe it really is due to how we approach him and what not....

Has anyone tried getting to him without glitching the priest? Maybe that is what causes him to do it... since that's really the most blatent thing we do different. And taking on wave 18 without a condi/enchant/hex heavy build is where our actual issue was - the day before anyway, we flawless it pretty convincingly now.

Whatever the case, there's something we did very right, even if we don't know what it is. And it's something by design, even if his SS is glitched, which is why we aren't being told. After reading the wiki discussion page on him the Dev's are being pretty brutal in their opinion on it and they aren't admitting that too much is actually wrong with it.

Karlos · Aug 09, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

I can't imagine LBG being the reason, but if it is everyone drop it because it's pretty bad anyway.

We don't run Lightbringer Gaze in our builds usually. I think Shan brings it when he comes with us, but other than that, we don't feature it on our bars except maybe in Veil or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Has anyone tried getting to him without glitching the priest? Maybe that is what causes him to do it... since that's really the most blatent thing we do different. And taking on wave 18 without a condi/enchant/hex heavy build is where our actual issue was - the day before anyway, we flawless it pretty convincingly now.

This seems like an obvious difference between how you guys do it and how the rest of us do. However, if you observe the priest when he is pulled away from harm's way (which I suspect you never have), then you'll see that he goes BACK to his original spot, then moves down in front of the door, just like a priest who was not pulled from his spot. i.e. there is no real way of telling the priest who was pulled from his spot from the one who wasn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Whatever the case, there's something we did very right, even if we don't know what it is. And it's something by design, even if his SS is glitched, which is why we aren't being told. After reading the wiki discussion page on him the Dev's are being pretty brutal in their opinion on it and they aren't admitting that too much is actually wrong with it.

Curtis already acknolwedged that SS spamming is an issue, and that they are fixing it. In fact, the fix might be out as soon as this weekend, however, I think the bigger issue is that the specs on Summoning Shadows are unreal.

I think when the Devs found out that he was being glitched at the door, they rewrote the mechanism for it so that he'd sense if people are hiding behind the door and pull them in regardless energy cost and what not (it used to be adrenal at first). However, I think Curtis recognizes that the AI they scripted for when he should use it has mistakenly included valid cases of people fighting inside. What he does not want to do is simply remove the door sensing AI and allow the old issue of him being glitched at the door to continue.

These are my guesses not Curtis' words, just so that we're clear.

As far as reproducing the glitch... As I said earlier, I do NOT want to find out how to "glitch" him so that he does not use Summoning Shadows. That's NOT a whole lot different than how it used to be (albeit fighting him without SS is obviously more challenging than Signet of Sorrow spamming him to death while he stand idle behind the door). I don't want to play AROUND the encounter I want to play the encounter. I want to see what Curtis had in mind to begin with. I think that's what everyone should be pushing for. Why do we keep trying to find new ways to glitch him and not fight him as he was intended?

I don't want to learn how to stop Urgoz from using Forest Binding, I don't want to learn how to stop Kanaxai from using Nightmare Refuge and I do NOT want ot learn how to stop Mallyx from using Summoning Shadows. I am sick and tired of avoiding the intended encounter. I am sure there are many who just want to get their greens/gems and get it over with and are curious as to how to glitch him. I have offered my insight on the matter and wish them good luck. We might try a run for curiousity's sake to see what it was, but if the new build comes out this Friday, then it's unlikely we'll do it before then.